She Almost Sold to Private Equity. Here's What She Built Instead.

Dr. Sarolta Szabo grew her dermatology practice from 3,000 to 18,000 square feet, cut her clinical days in half, and took six weeks of personal vacation last year — here's how she did it.

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In 2020, she was calling private equity firms to sell. By 2025, she had two locations, 50 staff, and her life back.

In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Sarolta Szabo — dermatologist and founder of Alta Vista Dermatology in Highlands Ranch, Colorado — for a conversation that covers the full arc: opening her practice from scratch in 2010, grinding through 10 years of trial and error, hitting a wall, and then making a decision that changed everything.

Dr. Szabo gets honest about what nearly drove her to sell — the burnout, the loneliness of the CEO role, working nights after the kids were in bed, and building without a roadmap. She talks through how she made the transition from working in the business to leading it, how she navigated growing with a spouse who wasn't initially on board with coaching, and how she rebuilt after losing five providers in a single year. She also shares what she believes about the role of community, accountability, and coaching at every level of growth — and why she thinks you either have a coach or a therapist, because doing this alone has a ceiling.

This is the kind of episode that makes you want to go back and listen again.

Tune in and get inspired!

Timestamps:

00:00 Teaser clip 

01:30 Introduction — why Dr. Una is excited about this guest 

02:35 Dr. Szabo's background and how she started her practice in 2010 

05:15 10 years of trial and error — what growth looked like before EBS 

06:50 Hitting a wall in 2020 and calling a private equity firm 

08:25 Finding EntreMD and deciding not to sell 

09:50 Joining EntreMD Business School on her 50th birthday 

12:40 The community and why it changed everything 

13:50 Private equity vs. private practice — what her life would look like 

17:00 Her true entrepreneur mindset and her father's influence 

19:15 What the practice looks like today: 2 locations, 18,000 sq ft, 50 staff 

22:00 Working two and a half clinical days a week and six weeks of vacation 

23:35 How growth affected reven

Additional Resources:

• Learn more about my 12-month program. 
• Interested in 1-on-1 coaching? Apply here.
• Grab a copy of the "The 7-Figure Physician CEO" book. 

When you are ready to work with us, here are three ways:

•  The Profitable Private Practice Movement - If you want to build a thriving private practice that serves a lot of patients, while creating time and financial freedom for you, come join us here. 
• EntreMD Business School Grow - This is our year-long program with a track record of producing physician entrepreneurs who are building 6, 7 and 7+ figure businesses. They do this while building their dream lives!
• EntreMD Business School Scale - This is our high-level mastermind for physicians who have crossed the seven figure milestone and want to build their businesses to be well oiled machines that can run without them.

To get on a call with my team to determine your next best step, go here ...

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:07

The business growth is beyond financial because it is just a tool. It is a tool how we can make impact on people's lives and that's the best benefit.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Hi Doc. Welcome to the OnTraMD Podcast, where it's all about helping amazing physicians just like you embrace entrepreneurship so you can have the freedom to live life and practice medicine on your terms. I'm your host, Dr. Imna.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Hello, hello everyone. Welcome back to the OnTraMD Podcast. Today is a day like we've never had on this podcast. I have my very good friend here, Dr. Soral Tasabo. She is, she is a total rock star, a vision board for physicians everywhere. And I really love about her that she is further along in her journey, always willing to learn, always doing new things, has built an incredible practice, is still in growth mode, and is so supportive of physicians everywhere, willing to share her stories, really willing to share the juicy stuff. We were just talking about it before we got on here. So you are in for a tree. This is an episode you want to sit down, you're gonna come, you're gonna re-watch it or re-listen to it. If you're on the podcast or on YouTube, you want to share it with the doctors in your world because, you know, there's so many transformations that will happen to in the physician community that will be directly linked to this episode. Okay, so I want you to be ready. So, Dr. Sorota, welcome, welcome, welcome to the Ontrevity Podcast. I want you to take a moment to introduce yourself so people understand why I'm so excited that you're here. And then I have a million questions for you today. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

I am so excited to be here. I'm excited to share the story. I'm always value and I I always love to learn. I have always had this growth mindset, I guess, my whole life, but I looked at it as a negative thing in the past. But when I joined your club, I feel like that finally I could justify my weirdness of constantly trying to learn and and grow and honestly like have fun with it. I think our journey now is it's about five years old at relationship, and that's when I joined EntraMD. I have graduated from residency in 2004, and I worked as a physician for a couple of practices in town. It took me six years to realize that the practice I imagined, but I want to practice the way I want to deliver, I want to serve people, just wasn't out there. And I had to realize that I have to create something because the way I want to deliver services to people is missing. Later on, with a lot of digging, I realized that my dad actually had quite a bit of an entrepreneurial mindset. And he tried to vire my brain that way. But, you know, at that time growing up, of course, you know, as a young adult and a teenager, I did not value that at all. Interestingly enough, in 2010, I started my practice and I was an entrepreneur for a while without knowing that I was doing that. In my old practice, quite some time. I helped that practice to open a brand new location and made it thrive. When I opened, quite a few people wanted to follow me. In fact, I had like a two-month gap when I didn't have my clinic open, but I finished my work with the old practice and I was taking phone calls. So I realized that, Mike, you know, I don't need to hire anybody, I can just take the calls. Now it was busy. I was the receptionist. I was taking, and but I was very happy to connect with my patients and get their information, and I told them, you know, as soon as we open, we'll call you and so forth. But then a long and hard journey started. And I honestly, like I enjoyed every moment of it, but I did a lot of the learning on my own. You were not out there, Dr. Una. You were not out there, and it was hard. It was hard for physicians to make decisions, to learn how to do things. I really had to go trial and error with most of the things that we did. So initially, it was just me, two part-time employees, and one full-time employee. So that was 2010 April. Just six months later, I hired a nurse practitioner. She really wanted to work with me. And honestly, like I told her I didn't have anybody for her, but she could join me if she really wanted to. And then so we grew into that. A couple of years later, we hired somebody who was our manager. But again, I didn't feel like we were ready, but she really wanted to join us. So she did. The growth we did initially was very random and very slow. And then 10 years, 10 years into the practice. So we were making profit. It was not like, you know, I'm still not driving a Porsche, okay? But it was a lot of work, a lot of nighttime management, you know, after my kids went to bed, and a lot of a lot of just sweat equity. I never knew how what I was supposed to do. So we did a lot of trial and error. And then 2020, 10 years later, when COVID came, and it really was beneficial for me, for my family in many ways, because all of a sudden I had this gap and I was able to sit down and like, oh, all these things are just kind of like so random. And I started to listen to your podcast, but I also did a lot of thinking, a lot of reflecting during 2020. And I just at that point, I was exhausted. I literally called a um private equity firm to come evaluate our practice. I just thought that, you know, it's it's good. We had a good run, 10 years. This was a good stretch, and I was proud of it, but I also didn't want to sacrifice my life. So I thought that I was, I was serving, but I was giving up my life. I didn't want to do that. I I really didn't. So at that point I reached kind of like, well, you know, I may want to practice for a few more years. So I just kind of, you know, sell the practice and and and I I felt lonely in in my CEO world, and I felt that I I couldn't really share. The stay-home moms in my neighborhood, you know, they were not really interested. I had a few dermatologist friends here in town, but I wasn't really shared like, you know, struggles. Everybody kind of was just sharing the bright side of the world, and I knew that that was not that that's not what it is, that there is more behind it. So, anyways, you know, I I just kind of bumped into you in a Facebook group, and I'm like, oh, she's actually the same person. Oh my goodness. And I started to listen to your podcast, and I find it like it was always so uplifting, and I thought, wow, she's like re-energizing me. She's giving me back my my kind of like my oomph to life, my will to actually run the practice in a different way. And I reached out to you and we had a, we had a we had coffee on Zoom, and I'm like, oh wow, she has four kids like I do. And I'm like, I feel like I'm drowning, and I feel like I should be enjoying my kids a little more, I should be enjoying my practice. What's wrong with me? And so we had a we had a really good talk, and I'm like, oh wow, she like really knows the stuff. And and I I love your philosophy to life. I love the way you approached running a practice or kind of like your your your business background. And I'm like, oh yeah, that's what I'm I'm missing. I just need to like get better organized. I need to get some of the clinical hours so that I can work on the business, not in the business. And and that started to free up some of my time. And then on my 50th birthday, literally, I joined EBS at the business school. And I thought this was gonna be the gift to myself that I'm going to give myself a community. I didn't even realize that the community was so good. I just wanted to listen to you more. I wanted more proximity to you because I'm like, okay, well, I listened to other podcasts, but I could, I could, I could take some more of this. We chatted, and then you mentioned kind of like some in-person things, you know, which coming out of COVID sounded amazing. I'm like, okay, I just really need to get close to you and get all that knowledge, all the juicy stuff, and grow that way. And that started to excite me. So I stopped talking to the private equity firm and and I started to hang out with you. There are two things. One is your knowledge, what you bring to the table every time it's new. So even though I've been part of the business school, I always feel like that. I always learn, I will always grow, even at the level I'm at. But I also love the community, which really is a very supportive community. Again, I find that actually, even on a national level, when I go to the specialist, some people will share, but some people will not share. So the fact that I went, I found this community where we actually would sit down and crunch numbers together and talk about our what worked, what didn't work, I think that was that was amazing. And plus again, I just love talking about growth and how we can grow not just on a business level, but all nine levels of life, as you like to say it. And I love that. I totally embrace that. Something that I have always been wired that way and never realized it until I actually started to hang out with you. Yes, my practice has grown even since, and I am I am very grateful. But I think 2020 we reached a point that it would have been really hard to grow any further without a better organizational system. So without me working on the business, without me taking the CEO time, without me actually putting a little bit more organization into how we hire, what is the structure of our business, how we did end up uh adding a lab, you know, so it's everything had to be better organized. And people needed me as a CEO. I mean, I still, you know, do some clinical work and I do quite a bit of teaching and training, uh, so the quality, but I have moved on to a different position. I don't think, honestly, I would have been able to do it all by myself.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

I want you to think, right? Because you were thinking, you started talking to private equity in 2020, thinking maybe 2021 in the spring, you may sell to private equity. And I'm sure you've spoken to many dermatologists who've done that. When you think about the way your business and your life is now versus what it could have looked like with private equity, what do you think that difference is?

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Dermatology specialty before COVID, about 20% was employed physicians and 80% was private practice. That completely flipped. So now it's 20% private practice in the 80% of private equity or academia or some sort of a group owned by hospitals or things like that. So I think my life would be very different. We all know when you're employed, you actually don't own your time. People own you. So they will tell you the none that patients need to be seen, the time when you can take vacations. And these things are very important. My family, I I still have second grader, you know, and second and fourth grader by younger kids. But the other thing is for me, like what excites me is growth and development and providing the best possible care for my patients. And when you're very limited in terms of growth because the budget is decided by someone else. And so in my world, the technology is really important, you know, in terms of skin rejuvenation, regeneration. I mean, even just the last five years, it has changed so much. And we are able to actually bring in technology the way we feel like it fits. And and that really one part of my practice really excites me to actually combine these new technologies to actually deliver services with that. So I think a lot of the things would be would be different if my practice was owned by someone else. My mind, like I feel like that what excites me is development and growth and how I can utilize what what I know to build onto it and deliver something different and something even better. If your mind is the growth mindset, if you want to figure it out, like my mind, I find it doesn't shut down shut off at five, you know. In fact, at 10 o'clock, I have a hard time shutting it off.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

So you're a true entrepreneur. So your your dad probably affected you a lot more than you thought. It made an entrepreneur out of you.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

100%. 100%. I I didn't realize it. And interestingly enough, my mom was always more of a safety kind of person, but he was the one who was pushing the limits, who always think thought about the new and different. So, but I, you know, mind you, I grew up in the communism. I grew up in Hungary, so a lot of people's minds were completely shut off or shut down by others, being told that no, this is everybody is doing this and nobody is doing different. So there was no entrepreneurial ship, everything was owned by the government. So my dad was really beyond his time. I didn't realize it until much later.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

That's beautiful. It's very interesting because just yesterday I was having a conversation with my brother, and you know, we were talking about the profound impact my dad had on us. My dad is very set in his ways. My dad is like, when everybody's egging, he's zagging. Everybody's going west, he's going east. And when he's made up his mind on something, it's happening or it's happening. You know, like there's certain things about peer pressure. It's not a thing that affects it affected him, was never materialistic. And we're just like everybody, all four kids turned out like him, you know. It was in my 40s. It started dawning on me how much he influenced me. And then, you know, I started thinking, I was like, so we're having so much of an influence on our own kids, even though they may not realize it, even though we may not realize it. And so, like you, an entrepreneur, it'll be interesting to see how your children grow up and they're like, they really value growth and development and going against the odds and winning and all of those kind of things. It'll be very interesting to see. So, for everyone who's a parent on here, one of the best gifts you give your family, especially your kids, is your personal development. Whether you sit them down to teach them or not, you are rubbing off on them in ways that, you know, you can't even explain. We're gonna talk about, you know, challenges, personal life, and all that. But before we do that, I want us to talk about what your practice looks like today. You had a time where, you know, it was it was profitable, but it was random. There's a lot of trial and error, the growth was slow, you were work full-time, like in the business, nights, weekends, all of those kind of things. And now you had this pivot that started on your kind of started on your or came to a head on your 50th birthday. You're like, okay, I'm going in, I'm gonna do this, like I mean it, and all of that. And you started working on the business, learning about CEO time, organizing the business, all of those things. And, you know, I'm sure people got this, like as you started talking about it, the billing, the team, all of that. Those are all frogs, those are all things that, you know, most people don't want to touch. And that's why most businesses cannot really grow, right? Because we don't touch those scary things. But you did all of that. So what what does your practice look like today? Like you were to contrast it with then.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Today we had two locations. Initially, we started out about 3,000 square feet when I opened 2010 with six exam rooms and just myself again and two part-time employees and one full-time. And then, so today we expanded that. The initial location has about 14,000 square feet. And then the second location, we added on another 4,000 square feet. So you went from 3,000 square feet to 18,000 square feet? Yes. Yeah, two locations, yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Wow, that is amazing. That is so awesome.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

I have uh seven uh physician assistants, so seven mid-level providers. I have a most surgeon who works with me, uh dermatopathologist. Our total staff is about up to 50 now, including the lab and support staff, including our VAs who support that practice as well. And initially, when I started, I worked four and a half days in the clinic. And right now I'm down to two and a half. That is awesome. How much vacation did you take last year? Six weeks of personal vacation.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

So you went from working four and a half days a week, working nights, working weekends, doing, you know, doing all the things to where now you're in a location that is six times the size of what you had before, and you're now working two and a half days a week with you know plans in place to reduce that. And you took more vacation than you usually would. You took six weeks of personal vacation. How does that make you feel? Like, is this something you thought was something you'd be able to create when you find yourself here? What comes up for you?

SPEAKER_00 19:21

What comes up is that it's amazing. I still can't believe it. And I also think that this is a a work that I have done with coaching. And I there's absolutely no way that I would have done this without coaching. And I, you know, full full disclosure, I do have a personal coach, and then as well as I do your program, which is absolutely amazing. What happened is that I started to change with your program, and then I felt like I needed actually also support. I needed more time one-on-one. And so that work really like you would plant the seed. You have to do CEO time, you have to take more time off. I'm like, okay, wow, this is never gonna happen. For some people, maybe it's easier, but for me, like I again, my upbringing was that, you know, the way I was raised, like my my mom had a very strong influence on me, and she always implemented like hard work, you know, just kind of push, push, push. And just for me, like, okay, but I just kind of have to do this. I have to just work in the clinic, and then after hours, I have to work on the clinic. And so, but you know, for the longest time, I I was sleeping like four or five hours a night, or maybe sometimes less. And I was able to do it, but I got to uh uh a critical point. I also met Dr. Funk Funky.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

But I was just about to say Dr. Funke would would have something to say about that.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

And I think I met her straight away on the very first live our live EBS Vision retreat and the fall of 2021. And so I'm like, yeah, this is not good. And I think my personal coach was sending me these videos about the the TED talks, about sleep, the importance of sleep. So I'm like, oh my gosh, this is bad. And so I think that it's just the combination of of working, seeing you, and talking about how can I grow the business further. There was no more room for me to take away from my sleep, or I didn't want to compromise on my health. I didn't want to compromise on my family. And and I think at that point I had to decide, okay, well, if I want to stay in this business, if I want to grow this business, then I have to make this change. And so I really had to force myself. And I have accountability partners. This is one thing definitely I love with EBS, is that we have accountability. We talk about these things and we put emphasis on our physical health, on our family life. It's not the expense of all these things to grow our business, but in fact, we want to grow everything together. I went half by half days. Okay, okay, let's cut back to three and a half days. I had done a lot of mind drama, and then, okay, well, you know, and then occasionally I would add back a few extra days. And my manager at that time, the office manager, was very supportive of me working glass because she understood. And she's like, Are you sure about this? And then, and I'm like, Yeah, let's add back two extra days. She's like, I don't agree with this, but okay. And so it was a lot of back and forth. It also is very good to have supportive people in the practice who understand, but ultimately I learned that as a CEO, I have a different role. And I, if I want to run my practice and grow my practice and keep my practice in the business. I my responsibilities are different. That really helped me. And you honed this in, Dr. Una, for sure. She's like, okay, well, you can see patients, but you can also teach that to someone else. And you can actually work on the business, make sure that the business is financially sound, right? So you have to carve out time to look at your numbers. I personally think that I am responsible for bringing in new technology or innovating, which is one of my core values actually for the business, because there's so much out there. And I feel I'm responsible to v all that out for my clientele, my people who I serve. So they don't have to worry about the services, what they get is the latest and greatest, but also the safest and the things that deliver. And we don't just take the money, but we actually, this is like an investment for them, right? So, but my job is to make sure that that is solid, right? The we follow the science. So I learn so I can bring it back to my practice. But that takes time. All of that takes time.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

You're a great CEO. I just love listening, like total boss mode. Hope you guys are getting this. No, I know somebody has this question, right? A lot of times when people think about bigger space, bigger team, working less, right? Like you're doing two and a half days, taking vacation and all of that, they understand, for their understanding is that the result of that will be less revenue and less profit.

unknown 24:45

Right?

SPEAKER_02 24:45

Like even when I talk to people like, you know, it's time to hire an office manager, they're like, how am I going to pay them? Like this is something that comes up on and on. So for you, building this whole infrastructure and building this life around it, what has it done to your revenue? Right? What has it done to your revenue? What has it done to your profit? Did your practice suffer for that? Did you grow for that? What happened there?

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Again, looking at the numbers, I think that's really helpful. And I have done this in a in a stepwise manner because I had a lot of that mind drama. I didn't go from four and a half days of clinical to one, you know? Also, kind of I learned something, you know, I would go to a meeting, DBS Vision Retreat, or a mastermind, and then I would learn something like, okay, I can do this. I work one day less, or I do work half day less, and then I'm gonna keep looking at the numbers. At the same time, I always wanted to make sure that somebody else is actually seeing the patients. I built relationships with these patients. So, I mean, honestly, like I have patients who still followed me since I've been in Colorado. So I got to know them so well. I got to know their kids. And so for me to see them on someone else's schedule, it gave me a little bit of a mind drama because I felt like I developed a relationship, and goodness, these people are cheating on me. They are going to somebody else. I really had to work very hard. And I wasn't even afraid of as much of the money, but I was just grieving the relationships. This is when I say that being a CEO can be very lonely because I actually have fun with my patients. So I go see them, I look at their skin, but we we chat, we chat about their kids, we chat about other things. I always learn a lot from my patients. And so I was kind of grieving the exit of these patients to someone else in my own practice. That was actually something was very hard for me. But slowly I realized that if I want my time to be freed so I can work on the business, I had to, I had to give up some of that clinical time. And looking at the numbers has helped all along. So we have developed a system where we would look at you the aggregate numbers for monthly. And then so we look at, you know, what was built, what was actually collected, you know, what type of visits we had, new patients, how many new patients. It was gradual. And all along, we have all along continued marketing, right? So even when I was full, and then when when we had mid-levels, then then we continued the marketing. We always cherished the relationship with our referring providers, sending back letters or keeping a good relationship, even phone calls if needed. If we had a critical patient, we had to take care of. So that was always priority all along. And then, you know, we have done events that I I think that that was probably the biggest boost in our community and referrals of our current patients. And so as we were growing, I couldn't handle all. So we had to hire mid-levels, and the surgeon joined me about 10 years ago. So I could kind of see the numbers that I was able to have these other providers take over the patients, and I was able to contribute to the practice in a different way. But the business school helped me justify it because before that I really thought that, okay, I just have to do it all. And I really think growing together with the business school, watching other CEOs and reading books together, I think that's also just really helped to change my mind that was so fixated on that day-to-day work in the clinic. It's not a straight up, okay? It's kind of like going up on the stairs. And you every once in a while, after every 10 steps, you're kind of at a landing, you take a breather, and then you go to another, another level. But it's never a straight line. And I also don't want to give an impression that we didn't have setbacks. Actually, two years ago, 2024, we lost five providers. So one physician and four PAs. Different reasons. All of them moved, a couple of them wanted to go work at the university, they wanted a different pace, they didn't want to do private practice. And so for various reasons, but five people. So last year, 2025, was rebuilding. I hired four new PAs, actually five total, and three brand new out of school. So I did a lot of training. So I I also consider that my job at this point is the quality of training. So I make sure that what we deliver is according to the standards I want to deliver in our practice. So again, that stakes away from clinical time, but it adds on to my CEO time so that I can deliver new and keep the quality, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:57

It's a big transition to make, right? Where you go from the doc who is doing everything to the leader of the team that is doing everything. And it does take, you know, like like you felt okay. That's like, you know, they they left me for somebody else and stuff like that. And you see people on the schedule, and these are familiar names. I know everything about them. That was the same for me in my practice as well, because I mean, like, I knew all of these people. I knew when, you know, mom was pregnant with baby number two and number three, and all the, you know, like some of them we were pregnant at the same time. Like all these stories, all this history. But I had to come to terms with the fact that I had to see myself as a CEO who was building a mini health health system. And if I was building a health system, there would be no way for me to see everybody, but I can curate and design the care for everybody. So my job went from delivering the care to designing the system that delivers the care. You know, but it does take a minute to make that transition. That's really powerful. And for the person who truly wants to have a lot of impact as a private practice doctor and wants to have financial and time freedom, this is a bridge we have to cross. There's mind drama around that and all, but the mind drama doesn't make it a problem. It's just something to work through to get to the other side. And thank you for talking about the challenges because yes, yes, yes, there's challenges with entrepreneurship. In fact, in the entream business school, we say the reward for solving problems is more problems. That's the way it works.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Your words always in the back of my mind, like certain things you really emphasize in the school. And again, you know, the power of proximity and the power of the group, honestly, don't know how people grow after a certain level if you are not part of a CEO mastermind. Because it is a very lonely road and the mind drama is it gets stronger and stronger. The higher, the more responsibilities you have, the mind drama is more and more. So my husband initially, even though he encouraged me and kind of helped me register our office, you know, in Colorado, but he didn't work with me for five years and he joined me, but he was not really into accepting coaching. So I had to initially push through and I said this is for me. Then I had to coach him without him knowing it, so that he is all aligned. And he has come a long way.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

One of the things that comes up a lot, you know, when some doctors want to join the on-trained business school, is like, you know, my husband is not on board, my let's say my spouse is not on board and and all of those things. So um I find it very interesting. Like, okay, initially he wasn't on board. I was like, this is for me. And then after that, I coached him without him coaching. So I want you to talk to that person who has to navigate this, right? Navigate this thing of, you know, my my spouse is not in support of me investing in myself. They're like, just do what you've done, right? Especially for you, because your practice had already crossed seven figures before we started working together. So it's not like technically there was no problem, quote unquote. You you see what I'm saying? Like, but this is you knowing there could be more, my life could be better, my business could be better, you know, and all of this stuff. So, so so talk to that person for a second.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Initially, so there were no boundaries. So when you are working together with your spouse, you have to kind of draw the line. There is business, there is private life. And so I started to notice in that 10-year mark, right? Because I felt that we had a no private life. Everything was about the business. And I said, I I I actually don't want that. I actually want to preserve our relationship. We have different things, and we have we would have arguments and things like that. And and I I told him, you know, I really don't want this to be only about the business. So then we would come home and then at 11 p.m. we would have an argument because we both are tired. And then then I'm like coughing and puffing for two days, you know, because because we didn't, it we didn't agree and things like that. But also I learned to appreciate the fact that he's looking outside the box and he's like thinking, like, okay, but how about this? How about that? I shouldn't look at this as a negative, but initially I did. So I'm like, why is he arguing all the time? And I'm more like a person who would want to always bring everybody on the same kind of page. And he's like, he's like looking outside the box. And so we had to kind of learn to work with each other. And so, and the thing is, like coaching wasn't a big thing, you know, when neither of us were growing up. So when I discovered that there's something called coaching, instead of going to therapy, because I think something's wrong with me, that I always want to grow, even beside after medical school. So instead of going to therapy, I'm like, oh, there is actually coaching. So I was telling him, I'm like, oh, and he's like, Well, you don't need that. You already went to medical school. And I'm like, well, I disagree. So we had a lot of kind of like, and so finally, by my 50th birthday, I had the guts to say, I'm like, I'm doing this. It's for me, it's for my birthday gift. And so this is what I'm gonna be doing. And so, but we had a lot of back and forth. I started to see that I can't come home from like meeting with EBS, I can't download everything to him straight away because that is too much. Uh, especially for someone who initially thought I didn't even need coaching. But I would just, I would bring it up. It, I would organize board meetings in a restaurant. He would go out, and then I would just bring up one aspect of it. Like, hey, what do you think about this? I thought this was kind of a good idea, and I wouldn't even mention it came from EBS. I would just kind of like, hey, I think this is kind of like a good idea. I think we should consider this. Sometimes he would actually agree, and sometimes he would just say, Oh, well, I don't think so. But then I would bring it up again, and I would bring it up again. And then eventually it's like, oh, okay, you are right, you are right. So, but I think that it always had to be not at 11 p.m. We had to find we had to find a different, a different time to discuss things. I just had to bring it up like, hey, I again, I wouldn't even say where I learned it from, but I I heard about this, and I think that this would be kind of a good idea. I think that we should hire in a different way, or we should structure this in a different way in the practice. I think, first of all, it has to be the time and the place to discuss. That would be like the number one thing. Then I also created like a board of directors meeting in the office. So when we brought bring in our operations director and we would bring another person in, because then we could bounce ideas of not just two of us, but now three of us who would be kind of more of a a neutral, a neutral person. I think that the growth has happened gradually. It it is definitely not a straight line. And I started to also value, I'm like, okay, well, when he's arguing, maybe he's bringing up a good point. So I shouldn't dismiss him straight away, but maybe think about it even on my end, and then kind of come to uh a mutual agreement. Then I started to learn uh at EBS that I should delegate. So actually, our relationship has gotten significantly better as I hired home help, as I hired a virtual assistant who would help me with some of the admin stuff. And so he didn't realize it, what was helping, but his life instantly has gotten better. And then he started to see that was also another argument, he didn't believe in that. So he's like, okay, well, you're spending all this money on this, whereas we could do it. Like, well, it's not that we cannot cook dinner. Of course we can. And we have tried this many times, and we can. And you know, we can still do it if we enjoy it, but we don't necessarily have to do it when we don't have the time. We both grew as I grew at EBS, even though that he didn't really accept the fact that we would need coaching, but our life has significantly changed because of it.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

There's so many angles to it, right? There's the angle of, well, you can position it as a gift for yourself. I've seen people do it like that's what I want for Christmas, that's what I want for my birthday, that's what I want for my anniversary. I've seen that. And then you talked about bringing the person along. And this came up in EBS recently, right? Where someone's talking about something that her spouse didn't agree on and stuff like that. And I said, you know, one of the greatest pieces of advice somebody gave me happened, you know, many years ago, probably been married for three or four years at this point. And this was an older guy. He was in his late 70s, and he said, You see, your husband, like, you guys need to make sure you grow together. Like, if he's learning stuff, pay attention to what he's learning. He's you're learning stuff, he pay attention to what you're learning. So you guys grow together. He said, My wife and I, we grew apart. And we grew apart because I was growing and she never grew. So it's like I'm saying this, and she had no clue what I was talking about. And sometimes it's not like, okay, sit down. Like you're talking, right? It's not like you come back from an EBS event, you're like, sit down, let me tell you everything. But it's about sharing that experience, sharing the learning, sharing the thought patterns. So you guys are both going in the same direction. You talked about patience because this thing takes time, but it's worth it. And then one of my favorite parts you talked about is the concept of show don't tell. So, yes, we we don't fully understand what hiring would do and all of that. But when you hire and they see it, they're like, oh, you know what I mean? And so there are a lot of things, if it's a thing where I don't have to have a conversation, I don't have the conversation, but I just do it as like, oh, that's interesting. That's really good. Let's do more of that, right? And so it's so powerful and it's doable, but we have to understand there's strategy to it and we need patience with it, right? So it's strategy and patience and you know, and all of that. That's that's so good. You just made me all kinds of happy. Okay. Now, one of the things that I say a lot is, for instance, when we talk about, you know, make a million dollars, make 10 million dollars, whatever, like grow your business, become a savvy, like, you know, create all these results. It's not so much so for the result as it is for the person you become. So when you think about like since you know, 2021, when you started on this journey, who have you become? What do you love about the version of you? Maybe something that's even shocking about the version you've become in the process of building the team, hiring more people, transitioning your role, you know, getting new locations, doing investing in EBS, doing all the things you've done. Like, what do you love about this version of you?

SPEAKER_00 41:35

I love that there is no imagination police. Like you can imagine something and you can actually bring it to fruition. What I enjoy really is is that I see uh growth and I see I I see impact, I see people changing around us. Like it definitely is rubbing off on our children. And the way I talk to my kids is very different today than back then, you know. If we want something, first of all, you know, we owe it the why, of course, you know, why are we wanting to do this? But I think we are much more purposeful in terms of what we choose in our life to do, in terms of at work or with the schools, with the kids, or how we parent the kids, how we relate to the rest of our families, you know, the way we handle life overall, how we think is very different. But I think we do a lot more things purposefully, even just the vision retreat is I like to go because it is something that is my time to think about what is important for me. So in the past, things would grow very randomly, but this way I actually know I want to do this, this, and this. This is really important for me this year. So we have grown in areas in life where probably otherwise we wouldn't have. And I watch people just going through life with no purpose. And I am so grateful that somehow I learned I got to be introduced to the system. How actually you can plan your life. And goodness, it works. It it actually works. I mean, you put your goals out and then you look at your goals a year later, and like, oh my gosh, I actually did this. And so you can you can live more purposefully. And I really think that at this point, I mean, I'm gonna be 55 this year, so that's all what interests me. A lot of benefits did come with it, you know, we plan beautiful, beautiful vacations. I got to bring along with the thinking, some of it with my family and traveling together. But really, whenever we do something, there is a purpose. It's for our family or for our business. But the business growth is beyond financial. Like, yes, of course, it has to make sense financially. It has to be beneficial, you know, for the long run. But it's something beyond because it is just a a tool. It is a tool how we can make impact on people's lives. Maybe we take care of the people who work for us. Maybe we have an influence on them, how we we carry our business or how we work, how the work ethic. We really make decisions very differently, and that's the best benefit.

SPEAKER_02 44:50

So, everyone, I'm sorry, you just need to, you know, scroll back and listen to that part again. But this there's a part you said that tugged that every string of my heart because this is my dream for every physician. You said the business. Business is just a tool, right? It's not an end in itself. Like so when I talk about building a business, building a profitable, profitable business, building a seven-figure business, eight-figure business, all of that stuff. It's not it, is the tool, but it is the tool for impact. It is the tool that creates time freedom. It is the tool that creates financial freedom. It's the tool that gives you a life back, is the tool that forces you, good force, but forces you to become a version of yourself that's inside. It's been inside all along, right? Because Dr. Sarota, you're not more like me or more like anybody in the school or anything like that. You're more you. You're more the you that you really are. That's, you know, inside. And so when you saw that, I was like, ah, that is that is so good. It is, it is a tool. And it sounds like you become unstoppable, right? You're like, huh, I can set a goal, I can hit the goal. I could cure, I can design my life and then go make it a reality. And imagine if instead of what we had in the physician community, we had that instead, right? Because now you have your agency back. Now burnout, no, you control that, right? You control your time, you control how you're treated, you control your value in the marketplace, like you're back, like full on control and full on freedom. It's just amazing. So there is a very, very, very common narrative and experience, right? Like private practice is dead. Yes, the insurance companies are doing what they're doing. And, you know, healthcare is just a different space. It's a different animal in this time. So there's somebody who's listening to this who is discouraged. They may even have, you know, a really successful business doing, you know, multiple seven figures in revenue, but they don't have any time. They don't feel like they're in control, they're stressed out, they're burned out, they don't think they can grow, they feel stuck, they feel like they're drowning. I will use the word that you used in the beginning. Talk to that person for a minute. Like let's give that person some encouragement. What would you tell them? Because you've been there, some version of there, you know?

SPEAKER_00 47:15

There are tools available that really wasn't around when I started. There are books, there are podcasts, and there's the business school. I mean, they're they're amazing tools. And I I think if someone feels overwhelmed, I I really think they just need about an hour of thinking time and sit down what is important for them and where do they want to go. Because if they want to grow, what they really need to do is cut back some of the things and then just put that CEO hour every day, maybe twice a week first, maybe three times a week first, and and work on the business. Hire help at work consciously. Maybe you can afford only a part-time person. There are people who are looking for part-time all the time. My PAs are all of them part-time. All of them. Nobody works in my office five days except the manager and the billing department. Hire somebody part-time, hire somebody for two days. Maybe there's a stay-at-home physician who would love to have or a stay-home PA, train the PA. Hire somebody so you have time to actually think and design how you want to run your practice. So then, when you have the time, you have to see how you're gonna spend your time. And so within the time, you can read books, start listening to podcasts, listening audibles while you're driving, and we're gonna have to find a community. You have to find a community because you have to bounce your ideas on somebody. There are so many things out there. You can find a personal coach, you can find a group coach, but you kind of have to belong. I don't know what your sport you all do, but soccer is big in my house. So, okay, Lionel Messi, okay, Lionel Messi, you know, everyone's favorite in my house. We have the jerseys and everything. But, you know, he still has a coach. He already is very famous, he still has a coach, and probably not one coach, because he has a group coach, that's his main main coach for his team, but then he has his personal coach. I can guarantee you, he has a personal coach. Kobe Bryant. If you loved Kobe Bryant, I love listening to so many of his stories. Recently, I listened, I heard a podcast with his private trainer. And so he had a coach, he had a group coach, you know, the at the Lakers and other stuff. But he had his personal coach, and he met the personal coach at 4 a.m. in the gym. 4 a.m. Because he wanted to do more than the other basketball players who did two practices, one in the morning, one in the afternoon. He met at 4 a.m. so he could train with another coach. So if you want to go, you have to have a coach. And I always say this you either have a coach or a therapist. Because otherwise, it's hard to do life on your own. You can run a small practice on your own, but then you have no time freedom, right? You cannot go on vacation. You cannot be there for your kids when they have a recital or they have something at school. You you can't be there. You can't you cannot help your parents to organize their 80th birthday party because because you'll be busy all the time with other things. So you kind of have to free up your time, have to hire, just start small in the office, have your CEO time and belong to a group. That's, I think, that will cover it all.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

The important thing is hearing it and doing it, right? You know, in entream do we talk about loronitis, which is a disease where we learn stuff and we don't do it. And so what Dr. Sarota talked about here is super powerful. Just start taking the action. And for everyone who's listening, we have stuff available for every physician, right? Like every physician. And I would say, you know, reach out to us on Tremd.com forward slash call. We truly are here to support physicians. We've done this for the last almost seven years, and we're going to do it for the foreseeable future because that's why we're here. Dr. Sarota, thank you so much for coming on, and thank you for being so generous with your story. You know, like I said, so many things in the healthcare space in the physician community are going to be linked back to this episode. You're you're a gem. Your example is a gem, and I'm really glad you could you could come on. Thank you for coming. Where do people find you?

SPEAKER_00 52:01

My office is Alta Vista Dermatology in Highlands Range, Colorado. Our website is altavistaderm.com. We do have Instagram and Facebook, Alta Vista Derm, again, or Alta Vista Dermatology on Facebook. And then we do have a YouTube channel as well, named the same Alta Vista Dermatology. Dr. Sabu Derm is my name on Instagram. But I our office is a little bit more comprehensive. That is is just something that you can find a lot of the things that we are doing in the office. So thank you so much, Dr. Unaid. It was my pleasure to be here. I feel like when you go through a conversation like this, you also realize how much you have changed. On a daily basis, it's really easy to get discouraged that things are not working. But along the way, this was something, again, I learned from the business school. We also read a book about this, how important it is to take account pretty much every day, if possible, to write down the things you have done. Maybe just one thing or maybe two things. And it doesn't have to be necessarily anything great, but when you see that you have taken even just one step forward, you don't realize it how important it is in the picture. That has helped me a lot because so often I am not doing an earth-shaking item on my agenda. And then I come home and my type A personality just gets discouraged that I did not save the world today. But when I write down, okay, well, I did this and this, and that still counts, those things will add up, and you are actually not staying in that negative, but you're staying in the positive mindset. This works in all aspects of life, and you can you can journal about any aspect of your life, and that will change. You can actually see the difference. Nobody does those huge jumps. I mean, maybe, maybe top sport people, maybe top, but I think most of it is going to be in the quiet, in your own preparation. And those ones just go incrementally, very small steps, but you have to keep yourself positive and you have to keep yourself motivated to do that.

SPEAKER_02 54:33

See, she's still dropping gems. I love it. It is always working. That that's the way we put it on trendy basically. It is always working. It's always working. And you want to put yourself in a position where you create evidence, which is what Dr. Sorota is talking about, that it is like I'm moving forward, I'm making progress, even though it doesn't feel like, you know, like type A, I didn't save the world today, but but still, right? And that's how these big shifts happen, right? They happen by taking those steps every day and acknowledging them. Otherwise, you know, we talked a lot about mind drama today. The mind drama will do you end the mind drama will convince you you've never done anything, you're not doing anything, and you might as well shut everything down. And, you know, like Dr. Sorota, I like that you mentioned earlier on in this conversation that the higher you go, the more mind drama. It doesn't go away, you just become better at handling it. This is really powerful. Now, you know, the way we behave in on train D, Dr. Sorota has come and she's shared and shared and shared. So if you know somebody who is in Colorado who's looking for a dermatologist, you now you know who to refer them to. And I want you to go to her YouTube channel. Okay, I want you to go to her YouTube channel. We'll post the link in the in the show notes and go there and subscribe and thank her for the interview and all of those things. We support our own. Dr. Sorota, thank you again for coming on the show. And for everyone, we'll see you on the next episode of the Untrained.